BGI CEO Wang Jun On Big Data, Drug Development And Fundamental Innovation: An Interview With PharmAsia News (Part 2 of 2)

Named “one of the ten people who mattered” in 2012 by the journal Nature, the BGI-Shenzhen co-founder talks about how big data will change the course of R&D, from drug development to agriculture to a new carbon world.

SHANGHAI – Founded in 1999 to support the Human Genome Project, BGI-Shenzhen (formerly Beijing Genomics Institute) has emerged as the biggest player in the data world of sequencing with more than 50% of the genomics community’s capacity. The company, whose research has generated over 250 publications in top journals such as Science and Nature, has sequenced everything from the rice and potato genomes to pandas, lizards and humans.

Based in Shenzhen (after moving from Beijing in 2007), the private company includes both a non-profit genomic research institute and a commercial unit that provides sequencing and bioinformatics services for medical, agricultural and environmental applications. By its data analysis platform, BGI is even trying to find the genetics basis of genius, by collecting DNA samples from people with IQs higher than 160. The company is also working on genetic tests to detect fetal chromosome abnormalities from maternal blood, and generates more than 1 gig of data per second. It’s not just big data, it’s “really big data,” says BGI co-founder and CEO Wang Jun.

Via a series of deals with companies and institutes, including Merck & Co. Inc., Novo Nordisk AS, GE Healthcare and the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia (CHOP), BGI has increasingly turned its sights toward improving drug development and disease diagnosis focusing on areas such as diabetes, cancers and rare diseases.

With a U.S. subsidiary in Boston, a European unit in Copenhagen and a proposed next-generation sequencing facility in Singapore, BGI has expanded its footprint rapidly in recent years. In January 2010, BGI opened eyes by buying 128 state-of-the-art HiSeq 200 sequencing systems from Illumina Inc., a deal helped along by a $1.5 billion, ten-year credit facility from the China Development Bank, announced a month earlier. Last November, BGI quietly raised RMB 1.4 billion ($225 million) from China Everbright Investment, Shenzhen Capital and U.S. venture firm Sequoia Capital.

In a not-so-quiet move, BGI announced last September it would acquire the struggling Mountain View, California firm Complete Genomics Inc. in an all-cash deal for roughly $177 million plus $30 million in bridge financing. Complete Genomics, a leader in whole human genomic sequencing, offers sequencing as an outsourced service to academia, biopharma companies and translational medicine researchers, rather than the traditional business model of selling sequencing instruments to customers.

Doing so frees up resources and can help facilitate “understanding of the basis, treatment and prevention of complex diseases,” CG noted in its last 10-Q filing from Nov. 9.

Despite a late attempt by Illumina to make its own bid for Complete Genomics, BGI closed the deal on March 18 [See Deal]. The combined company will have a database of 30,000 whole human genomes, about 10 times larger than its nearest competitor, according to Bloomberg’s BusinessWeek.

Four days before the Complete Genomics deal closed, BGI co-founder and CEO Wang Jun sat down with PharmAsia News in Shanghai, along the sidelines of the annual China Healthcare Investment Conference, to talk about big data, drug development and what he calls “fundamental innovation.” Wang, a 36-year old bioinformatician with a PhD from Peking University, has authored more than 100 peer-reviewed papers. In December 2012 he was named “one of the ten people who mattered this year” by the journal Nature. Part one of this interview appeared here: (Also see "BGI CEO Wang Jun On Big Data, Drug Development And Fundamental Innovation: An Interview With PharmAsia News (Part 1 of 2)" - Scrip, 2 Apr, 2013.).

BGI CEO Wang Jun

Source: BGI-Shenzhen

PharmAsia News: Can you talk about your collaboration with Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and what it means for BGI?

Wang Jun: We are going to do both scientific collaboration there, and also the clinical service. So our aim is to find interesting biomarkers with diagnostics, and then we can work with the CHOP scientists and clinicians to offer the service there.

PharmAsia News: Affordability is a big issue in China. As a Chinese company, how focused are you on developing products that can address the needs of Chinese patients and doctors versus markets like the U.S. and Europe where affordability isn’t as big of a problem?

Wang: Well, we are scientists. At the very beginning, we were part of the Human Genome Project, which was quite international. If you know BGI's history, BGI's name is much better known outside of China than inside China. Outsiders really know BGI, but sometimes actually they know even more about BGI than the Chinese. So we grew internationally at the very beginning. We got the recognition in the U.S. and Europe. We basically see ourselves as international.

But knowledge should not be restricted. We need these things to be shared. This is the spirit of the Human Genome Project, to work together, to share together, and to own together.

“Eventually, the entire health care and agriculture world has to be rebuilt based on those big data.”

That's really also the spirit of BGI's global expansion. We want to do things together with world scientists, and we also want to develop things with them together. Then, of course, share the whole thing together. So we don't really think about it as a U.S. market or European market or Chinese market. When we develop a product, we want it to be globalized so everybody could use it.

And we also pay particular interest not only to the developed countries, but also to developing areas like Africa, India and Southeast Asia. We actually pay extra attention there.

PharmAsia News: As far as working with scientists there, or do you mean genomic sequencing?

Wang: Both. Scientists and commercial projects. A hospital, for example.

PharmAsia News: Is there an example you could highlight?

Wang: For example, let's talk about India. We just had a recent collaboration and published two papers. One is in chick peas, another is in pigeon peas. Those two are the orphan crops in India. We worked with scientists in India who sequenced these genomes and started to think about doing molecular breeding of the genome there, helping them to have better breeds. And for that one, the Gates Foundation also funded part of the project.

PharmAsia News: How closely are you working with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation?

Wang: The Gates Foundation has signed only two strategic partnerships in China. One is with MOST, the Ministry of Science and Technology, another is with BGI. So we had lots of meetings, discussing how to work together, what's the future? We have a common goal in Africa and parts of Asia, trying to help with global health and also agriculture, to help poorer people. We work closely on many projects.

PharmAsia News: A buzzword we hear a lot now is “big data”. Every conference we attend, someone mentions big data. As you see it, what is the role of big data at BGI, and in general for scientific research and drug development?

Wang: We are in a big-data world. At BGI, every second we have one gig of data generated. This is a really big-data world. We are driven by the data, let’s put it that way.

PharmAsia News: So it sounds like you were doing big data before everyone was talking about big data?

Wang: We were big data before there was actually a recognition of this fancy word. For example, the entire data analysis platform and applications based on big data have been pushed for many years inside BGI because we have to digest the data we’ve acquired. I strongly believe, as I just mentioned to you, for example, for a type 2 diabetes study, 1,000 samples is not enough. Ten thousand samples is also not enough. Maybe a million samples is not enough, just because everybody's genes are different. So you just need to do a huge amount of data collection. Then, starting from there, try to summarize the scientific rules from the data. Get the knowledge there. Then start to do applications based on the knowledge we've received.

So this is the whole process. Eventually, the entire health care and agriculture world has to be rebuilt based on those big data. Actually, big data means a lot of things. It is a new angle or new level for people to know the world and to know yourself. So it's very important in order to really apply or get any applications or knowledge out of yourself, you need to know yourself first, and that requires lots of data applications. Then start from there, you will be pushed. You just need to digest, mining the data and get the information, and then sometimes you realize you need even more data to get meaningful results.

PharmAsia News: You have to collect the data, but then you also have to analyze it and make sense of it, right, which seems fundamentally different?

Wang: Yes. So BGI has more than 1,000 people doing data analysis.

PharmAsia News: Is that a core strength of BGI, data analysis, bioinformatics?

Wang: Yes, absolutely. We're building up our own software, algorithms, this and that, trying to mine the data. Again, because we are closest to the data, we were pushed, we have to deal with it. So we know the data the best, actually.

PharmAsia News: A lot of your partners, they might want to tap into big data, but they might not know what to do with it once they have it, is that the idea?

Wang: Exactly. So that's also one strong reason for them to work with us because then they know how to look at the data.

PharmAsia News: So what's next? The CG deal closes next week. Where's BGI going to be in a year?

Wang: In a year, boy.

PharmAsia News: Or five years – what’s your overall vision for BGI?

Wang: This is just the starting point for BGI. So now BGI has its own technical platforms. We have our own ambition to do lots of human health care. So we're dividing ourselves for the application parts. We have BGI tech to do service, BGI research to do lots of academic non-profit projects.

“The idea is trying to get all the genetic factors, environment factors, of those complex disorders and try to find a way to incubate, to do incubation of those diseases.”

Then we have three parts in BGI healthcare. One is for the prenatal diagnostics, so neonatal diagnostics, anything for pregnant women or newborn babies. Lots of testing, mono-genetic testing, Down's syndrome and all these issues. Then we have initiated a big program to do cancer, personalized cancer therapy and treatment, diagnostics. And a certain part of that is the complex disorders and personal genome. That's a little bit long term, but the idea is trying to get all the genetic factors, environment factors, of those complex disorders and try to find a way to incubate, to do incubation of those diseases.

So this is the three major parts of our health care. Then we have BGI agriculture to do animal and plant breeding. And recently we established a center focused on new carbon cities, or whatever you want to call the recycling economy. So we look to do the bio-treatment of those waste waters, pollution, plastic bags, and all these issues.

PharmAsia News: How about all the dead pigs floating in the river this week in Shanghai?

Wang: Yeah, yeah, that is actually one we should work on. So the idea is how to build up a new carbon world.

PharmAsia News: Does that include biofuel energy?

Wang: Yes. Cellulose, for example, so environmental protection is also part of our business. We sense in China, and globally, there is a big business opportunity there. Also a scientific opportunity, so we try to do something there with environmental protection and create a new carbon world.

It's a newly established department at BGI, only established this year.

PharmAsia News: No one would accuse you of thinking small. That's a big vision.

Wang: Lots of work, yes. Very ambitious, for sure.

PharmAsia News: How many people work at BGI?

Wang: Close to five thousand.

PharmAsia News: BGI has received numerous awards through the years, including recently being named one of the ten most innovative companies in China by Fast Company magazine. That’s a hot topic right now; whether Chinese companies can be truly innovative and whether the definition of innovation perhaps differs in China than in the West. How do you see innovation in China developing? Will there be more companies like BGI coming out of China to help solve global problems? What is innovation?

Wang: Let me put it this way. The title “innovative company” is not something BGI awarded itself. Others did that. We just do whatever we think is the proper thing to do. I think scientific discovery is very important, and lots of Chinese companies are doing technical innovation.

There are three types of innovation in my mind. The first one is continuous innovation. You already have an existing technology, so you try to build modifications here and there, just trying to make it better. And this is really one type of innovation, and lots of companies are doing that in China.

And the second one is disruptive innovation. So basically you destroy completely all systems and that’s disruptive innovation.

I think what BGI is trying to do is fundamental innovation, which is the third one. That means recreating a new world. So in that sense, with this fundamental innovation, the whole society needs to build on these new elements. The thinking, the lifestyle, the working style, the energy style – any style needs to be rebuilt based on this new element. This is a new essential element. It's like IT. When you first had IT, you basically had to rebuild the whole society and world in a totally different way. So we’re not even talking about disruptive innovation. It's fundamental innovation. It's like you are rebuilding the whole thing.

“You have to know the world at first; then, based on that knowledge, you know how to really change it.”

So I think right now for genomic technology, as well as the future based on omics, big data, whatever you want to call it, it will be a totally new fundamental innovation. It will be a totally new world in the future.

So this is what BGI is trying to do. We don't want to fight with any people. On the contrary, we want to work with everybody, because this new element will embrace every possibility. It will touch upon all the organizations around the world. So they will need us, basically, and we will need them too. So it will become a win-win situation for everybody, then we will all recreate a new world. This is what I see for the innovation part.

And if you want to do health care, that requires, again, a new understanding of yourself, of the human, of humankind. If you want to do agriculture, you need to know, for example, the cow, the pig, the rice at a new level, with a new understanding. So it's based on that new level that you do stuff. That's the difference between biotech and IT. IT has basically created something there.

For the bio parts, first you have to gain this new understanding. Then, you will know how to change the world. You have to know the world at first; then, based on that knowledge, you know how to really change it or how to really develop something new there.

PharmAsia News: You have to know the world to change the world?

Wang: Exactly. You have to know yourself before you should do something to yourself. You can change the world if you first really know the world. For example, if you don't really know type 2 diabetes has an association with gut bacteria, you wouldn’t think about developing anything there to treat that. So now, we know that; we have a new understanding of this type of diabetes as a disease. Then you know what to do to avoid that.

It's really important that this field, biotechnology or whatever you call it in the future, gets a real understanding of humans as a species, or of the world, of many species and the environment, everything. It's really the key first step to do any development or application or anything based on that.

PharmAsia News: How long will it take?

Wang: It's different, right? Different applications will have different time cycles. So for prenatal, for Down's syndrome, you can do it now because you already know what's going on there. You have the technology ready and the regulations, everything, so it's already closed the loop.

But for some applications, for cardiovascular disease, for example, or autoimmune, schizophrenia, asthma, anything like that, it will probably take a little bit more time to close the loop. We have to get a real understanding of asthma. Then you know what to do with it. There the loop will be much longer than for doing a Down's syndrome test, but it will come. It's all coming in the future.